Osamu Okamura: Most quality architecture is now happening outside Prague
Osamu Okamura was born in Tokyo to Japanese-Czech parents but moved to Prague while still an infant. An architect by profession, he is involved in a wide slew of activities, from academic work to popularising the concept of liveable cities among the general public. His family name is well-known in Czechia largely thanks to his brother Tomio Okamura, who heads a leading anti-EU political party, while a second sibling, Hayato Okamura, is also an MP.
You were born to a Czech mother and a Japanese father in the 1970s. How did your parents meet?
“That’s a long story. They met through writing letters in English to each other, so it was a kind of pen pal tradition.
“My dad wanted to improve his English, so he sent his address to Europe, trying to find someone who would exchange letters in English with him.
“And because my mum was a teenager at high school at the time she was also starting to study English, so she just got the address and she tried to reply. They then started to exchange letters at, let’s say, the turn of the 1960s.
“[My parents] met through writing letters in English to each other.”
“There was not so much contact between the socialist or communist countries and Western Europe, while Japan had a very special position, because it wasn’t a typical ‘imperialist’ country, as the Communists said.
“They were actually kind of also occupied by the America Army at the time; there were a lot of protests at the time, there was a big leftist movement.
“So there were also a lot of connections – cultural connections, political connections – between the Soviet Bloc and Japan, surprisingly so.
“So they started to exchange letters and my dad realised he wanted to also study German, so he came to Germany and at that time he visited my mum in Prague. And then my oldest brother was born in Prague.”
You moved to Czechoslovakia in the mid-70s at the age of around three. Do you have any memories of your life in Japan, from before you came here?
“I was too young to have really vivid memories. I only can somehow recall some memories of our apartment, a very little bit, maybe of the nearby Metro station, but that is all.”
Have you spent much time as an adult in Japan?
“I went regularly for summer holidays. Because I was always studying in Prague, working in Prague, so there wasn’t much other time to visit Japan than in summer, between my studies.
“And very recently I’ve also been involved in teaching at the Tokyo University of Science.
“For me that was really surprising, or rewarding, because we left Tokyo, Japan, the most advanced country at that time, for Communist Czechoslovakia, almost 50 years ago, and now I was invited as a Czech architect to teach the Japanese about liveable cities. And that’s really satisfying, right?”
When you moved here as a child there were probably few kids around with such colourful backgrounds as yours. I guess you stood out. Was it tough being a kid here in the ‘70s, in communist Czechoslovakia?
“Of course in the first moment, because I look a little bit different, people were maybe not sure where I’m coming from. But after a while, especially with my classmates and friends, this completely disappeared.
“Sometimes I was even surprised when somebody asked me something about Japan or Asia, because I completely erased this from my mental perception.
“So it didn’t happen so often in childhood. Very rarely actually. But after that when I got, for example, to the university, there were more and more people coming to me, asking me some specific questions about Japanese culture, architecture, arts.
“Sometimes I was surprised when somebody asked me about Japan or Asia, because I completely erased this from my mental perception.”
“And then I realised I was missing that a little bit. Because I wanted to help them, to advise them [laughs], to give them some good answers, I started to study a little bit more about Japanese culture.
“Because since I grew up in Prague, I didn’t have so much knowledge about Japanese culture and architecture and so on. So I studied a lot and I ended up doing lectures about Japanese culture and architecture and so on.
“And that was the start of my, let’s say, public career.”
It’s quite well-known that your brother, Tomio Okamura, spent some time in some kind of children’s home when he was a child. Did you also?
“Yes, we were there together. The oldest brother stayed with our grandparents. We are three brothers.
“And our mum, because there was so much stress after she moved with us alone to Czechoslovakia – our dad was supporting us from a faraway distance, and only visiting once or twice a year – and it was really stressful.
“Because I was in this children’s home with my older brother I didn’t see it very problematically.”
“So in a certain moment our mum collapsed and she had to get some treatment in hospital. Our grandparents couldn’t take care of all three of us, so it was a really, really critical moment.
“But because I was in this home with my older brother, Tomio, I didn’t see it, like, very problematically.
“I was there with him, so I had a sense of family and security and safety and so on, while he speaks about it a little bit differently.”
Years later you studied architecture at the Czech Technical University, but you also studied at the Academy of Fine Arts. Why did you also go to the Academy of Fine Arts?
“I started at the Technical University and somehow I really tended to look at architecture in a more complex way – not just as a technological challenge but more like, I would say, cultural, social, political maybe.
“So then I found the understanding of architecture that was being taught at the Technical University a little bit limiting, so that’s why I applied for my Master’s at the Academy of Fine Arts.
“It was something that definitely impressed me a lot, but after a while my professor advised me to switch to intermedia art, because he saw I had some aspirations to go even more in an interdisciplinary direction.
“Then I continued with [artist] Milan Knížák and then later with [artist] Miloš Šejn.”
Milan Knížák is quite a controversial character. On one hand he is quite widely disliked for the way that he ran the National Gallery in Prague, but on the other he was a very cool artist and a member of the Fluxus movement with people like Yoko Ono. How did you find Knížák?
“I think he was a very good pedagogue, a very good teacher. He really tried to push your boundaries and he was also very humane in his interactions.
“He was very provocative all the time. The only thing is I got to him at the very end of my studies and I already knew what I wanted. So I wasn’t really that ‘easy to model’, you know like…”
Malleable?
“Yes. So I was really resisting his methods [laughs]. That’s why it didn’t work much.
“He very carefully looked at what you were doing and how passionately you were doing it, and then he gave you a completely opposite task, just to challenge you. And I hated it [laughs] – it didn’t work with me!
“But definitely it was a method how to make you sure that you are doing what you are doing fully and full-heartedly, I would say.”
In your architecture career you haven’t focused so much on designing buildings as such. Mainly you’ve been active in other areas. You’ve been a university dean, lecturer, writer, you edited an architectural journal for many years, you have been involved in efforts to raise public understanding of architecture and urban planning, you’ve taken part in urban festivals, you’ve done media work. Why have you chosen to focus on the kind of educational side of architecture?
“I see the role of architecture much wider than just constructing buildings. Even though that is the substantial part of it for me, on top of that, of course, architecture is not just bricks and houses – it’s people and the relations between them that are being imprinted into physical matter.
“And then I’m really interested in how relationships between the material world and the virtual world – or how relations between people correspond – function, or not.
“I think it’s definitely experience from my childhood and from the different cultures and different modes of living on this planet [laughs].
“Because the Asian or Japanese view of how things should work is very often quite different from the European one.”
About Prague and architecture, if we look at the architecture that’s been built here in the last few decades, since the fall of communism, has Prague got a lot of decent new buildings? Has the architecture developed well here in those decades, in your view?
“Recently I’ve been editing a special issue of a Romanian architecture magazine about the latest developments in architecture in the Czech Republic and Prague and I have to admit I don’t have much to say about architecture in Prague, because there is not so much happening in terms of high-quality architecture that I would find inspiring.
“Most of it is happening outside of Prague, in small centres all around the country. And it’s due to the, let’s say, fast-spreading practice of employing so-called municipal architects at many municipalities.
“Most high-quality architecture is happening outside of Prague.”
“That could be one person coming once a week, or once in two weeks, for consultations, up to offices of dozens of people, which we can find in bigger cities.
“These people develop strategies on how to make cities more liveable and also prepare architecture competitions and tackle issues around public projects.
“I have found recently a lot of beautiful community houses, libraries, primary school buildings – that’s very typical recently – and galleries, museums.
“The PLATO gallery in Ostrava is one of the prime examples, because it got selected to the Mies van der Rohe Awards, which is for the best European architecture, and it got shortlisted in the top five in the whole of Europe.”
Is that the former abattoir?
“Yes, it was transformed into a contemporary art gallery on the basis of an architecture competition.
“It was not even a Czech architect, and that adds another layer to it; it’s by a Polish architect, which brings another dimension to cross-national cooperation in Europe.”
One perhaps marginal, or marginal seeming, issue connected to architecture and urban planning is global warming. Is Prague doing enough in that area? For example, I live near Jiřího z Poděbrad square, which is being redeveloped now and there are going to be a lot more trees, which will help in the summers. But in general is Prague doing enough in that area?
“I believe so. I don’t think Prague is doing badly, but of course the revitalisation of the river is very important, then designing the squares and taking proper care of parks.
“But what I’m a great critic of is the lack of trees in the streets in some neighbourhoods. For example in Vinohrady, where you live, it’s not the case.
“I’m a great critic of the lack of trees in the streets in some Prague neighbourhoods.”
“But in other areas, like Žižkov, Smíchov or Nusle, where I live, we don’t have alleys of trees in the streets. And when it gets really hot in summer, it’s unbearable.
“The city doesn’t cool down even in the night because it radiates the heat that has accumulated during the day.
“And even though my windows are to the north, and I don’t have direct sun, I can’t really sleep – it’s so hot there.”
Another issue with architecture and Prague is what to do with socialist-era buildings. For example, right behind us here on Vinohradská St. there was the Transgas building, which was demolished. I know that the mayor of Prague [Svoboda] even said that the Máj building could be knocked down. Where do you stand on the treatment of socialist architecture? Is it being handled correctly, do you believe?
“I would rather call it late modernist architecture than socialist architecture, because it then connects very much with the political era and not the architectural era.
“So in that respect many of these buildings from the socialist time are very high-quality modernist, or late modernist, architecture.
“Some of them were unfortunately built with the use of not very healthy materials, like asbestos, or they were built on some urban planning assumptions or ideas that didn’t function very well.
“That’s a little bit the case with the Transgas building, because its public space was very, very problematic.
“So I was not so much a critic of the building itself – its architecture was very nice and very state-of-the-art at the time – but as a main entrance to the, I would say, most prestigious neighbourhood of Vinohrady and its artery, Vinohradská Street, it didn’t work.
“It was just like dark, a very, I would say, almost dangerous, unpleasant space.
“It actually never much worked, the public space. So while the inside of the building may have been nice, you see that it’s a more complex thing.
“With other buildings like DBK [department store by Budějovická Metro station] – there are plenty of them – I sign petitions. And Maj, of course, and the Kotva department store; these are the masterpieces of their time.”
Getting back to you yourself, this year you ran for the Green Party in the European Parliament elections. You must have known there was very little chance you would get elected on the Greens’ ticket – why did you stand for the Greens?
“I was always voting for the Greens and I don’t really care if they get elected or not, because I like the programme.
“So it’s kind of the way how I perceive the world. I just follow my heart, and my brain, so if people vote for the programme or not, or if they support me or not, the ideas are basically what I’m trying to spread.
“I was only number five, so it was not a position on the candidates list where I could be voted in, so I said, Yes, I will happily do it, I love your programme, I think it’s the best programme, based on sustainable development, which I believe in.”
Why do you think it is that there is so little interest in green politics in Czechia? Is it seen as a kind of luxury and not as an important as, for example, jobs or cars or the car industry?
“I would say there is interest in green politics, there is not so much interest in the Green Party [laughs].
“The Green Party has its own history, with its ups and downs and some slightly weird figures, and they were in a much better position, I would say, some 15 years ago. Now they are pretty much down.
“But I don’t think it’s so much about society not being interested in green policies.
“At the same time, the Czech Republic is heavily dependent on the car industry. And of course the car industry has a strong say in politics and it’s widely interconnected with politics.
“We proposed there should be more investments into public transit, there should be more stress on the agenda of walkability of our cities and more inclusivity in our cities and I think people actually understand what we were saying.
“But it goes a little bit against the interest of the industrial lobby, in a way.”
Many of our listeners will know the surname Okamura in connection with your brother Tomio, who’s the leader of the anti-EU, anti-migrant party Freedom and Direct Democracy. Your oldest brother, Hayato, is also an MP, for the Christian Democrats. About Tomio, some people say he doesn’t even believe in the politics that he espouses, that he didn’t initially come out with anti-migrant rhetoric but was all about direct democracy – and then he got into the field of being basically far-right because he thought it could be lucrative. I’m really curious if you think he believes all the things that he says.
“It’s very difficult for me to say, because I’m definitely biased, you know. And we have a kind of an agreement with Tomio that we will not comment on each other in the media [laughs].
“But when you look at his history you see that he was always a businessperson.
“He is very industrious. He was in the travel agency business and he was very successful.
“So if that answer kind of works for you I would leave it there [laughs].”
OK, you have this agreement with him. But still I’m curious, are there moments when he goes too far in your eyes? For example in the summer when his party had this poster with a “surgeon” with a knife, which many people said was very racist. He also says other inflammatory things. Are there times when there are tensions between you because of the things that he says?
“Absolutely. There are moments we really have arguments. Sometimes there is some silence, or we have a dispute over the phone.
“So there are things, yes, of course.
“I think that some of the problems that he is addressing are very important problems and we should be aware of them, we should work on them, such as migration for example, and not try to avoid these problems.
“But at the same time you have to look for solutions that really work and are functional long-term.
“Sometimes I think he missed the history classes at school, no? I’m really shocked [laughs].
“Sometimes I think Tomio missed the history classes at school, no? I’m really shocked.”
“Because I studied so much about the second world war and the ‘30s and the Holocaust and so on. Some of the rhetoric and the language is completely, completely unacceptable for me.”
I have two siblings and if one of them headed a far-right party and was repeating Russian talking points on Ukraine and was a close associate of some of Europe’s most, in my view, dangerous politicians, like Marine le Pen, I don’t think we could be friends. I think you’re a better person than me if you can be friends with Tomio.
“We have such a long personal history with Tomio. He is just one year older than me and somehow we were the closest siblings.
“We also took care of our parents when they were really severely ill. So there are really some existential moments where you can overcome these divides in political thinking, or our characters are quite different.”
Your other brother, Hayato, is a member of the Christian Democrats, he’s an MP for them, and I presume he’s against same sex marriage. You’re gay – is that an issue for you that he doesn’t support your full rights, so to speak?
“There are some policies with Hayato where we can easily agree, like this pro-European direction and so on, while some things maybe divide us a little bit.
“He’s a really strong believer, he’s very religious, and to him it’s something that is ultimately maybe given from God, I don’t really know.”
Does he think you’re a sinner because you’re gay?
“I wouldn’t say so. I wouldn’t say so. He accepts me fully.
“I think that this is something that maybe is more connected with political activities – I think he’s much more progressive in a way than his colleagues from his party.
“But of course when we speak about politics and voters and voter preferences, he is definitely pushed to be more conservative, and I would understand that.
“But at the same time he never told me anything like that it’s wrong. I’ve never heard a word from him, like, Osamu, you are gay, that’s wrong and it’s a sin.
“No, never ever.”
On a slightly lighter note, I was reading also that you were involved in the construction of Tomio’s most unusual house, which looks like a kind of collection of tubes of different heights. Why did he have this unusual house built?
“That house was widely disputed publicly here, but there wasn’t really a proper professional discussion in the Czech Republic.
“The house is designed by one of the best global architects, Christian Kerez, who is a Swiss architect, and I advised my brother to hire him.
“First Tomio asked me to design the house, but because of the many activities which we mentioned at the beginning of our interview I didn’t have so much time to do that.
“I tried for one year almost, but it didn’t work, in the evenings and on the weekends.
“So I then said, If it’s not me, why not think about an extraordinary approach – why not hire one of the best global architects?
“And my brother wanted something that stands out. I can really understand that, because for our family it’s a kind of natural thing to stand out, and we can’t really do much about it [laughs].
“If you don’t look like other people, you are not really under pressure to build a house like your neighbours.
“So it’s similar to the Villa Tugendhat, when we compare it. That house also stood out at that time, and it was built by a Jewish family.
“And Christian came with a project, and you might be surprised, that is inspired by the favelas where he was born [Venezuela].
“It’s brick structures that are kind of organically stitched together, it looks like it was built over decades; in the case of South America it’s so, but in Prague in not like that [laughs].
“Tomio’s house is the most globally famous house from the Czech Republic from the last two decades, for sure.”
“But it took almost one decade to build, because of the construction permits. It’s very difficult to fit into the regulations with a house that consists of 15 or 16 tubes and doesn’t have any typical roof.
“And we really got stuck with the definition of ‘attic floor’ – what does that mean when you have tubes?
“But the project was really published worldwide. It was on the covers of many magazines, in Switzerland, Germany, Italy, Japan, of course, it was everywhere.
“I would say it’s the most globally famous house from the Czech Republic from the last two decades, for sure.”
