Diving into Waves: Jiří Mádl on massive hit "1968" film
Waves by Jiří Mádl wasn’t only the most successful Czech film at the box office in 2024: the movie, which centres on events at Czechoslovak Radio at the time of the Soviet invasion, is also one of the biggest cinema hits the country has seen in the modern era. Now Waves is also aiming for international glory, having made the shortlist of 15 pictures in contention for the Best International Oscar, with the actual nominations set to be announced in mid-January. Just after the shortlist was announced, I spoke with writer-director Mádl, who first found fame as an actor and had made two previous films before coming out with a gripping story set in one of the most tumultuous moments of Czechia’s modern history.
Waves has been a huge success, with over a million viewers in Czechia and Slovakia. I know it’s a tough question for you, but why do you think it’s resonating so much with cinema audiences?
“Well, if I knew the key I would do it again [laughs], but I can’t really tell.
“I think that what we really tried is to make the film clear in many terms. We wanted the emotions to be clear, we wanted the values to be clear and we also wanted the facts to be clear, to everybody, not only to the audience that knows a bit about the history but also for the audience that knows nothing.
“We wanted the emotions to be clear, the values to be clear and the facts to be clear.”
“I would call that an ‘international audience’. I’m not saying they know nothing [laughs], but quite often their knowledge of our history is limited.
“And we also thought of the young audience, a lot.”
You were born in the second half of the 1980s. Why does this topic of the invasion and subsequent occupation speak to you?
“I wouldn’t say it’s the invasion that speaks to me. I wouldn’t even say that history speaks to me. What really was important for me was the dilemmas that my protagonists go through, that they need to face.
“Because I believe that it doesn’t really matter where such a story happens, or when it happens, because people face these dilemmas.
“It’s just great that we as the Czech Republic have this history where, once again, it is clear. It’s beautiful to show in the example of this invasion that people sometimes take steps that are not beneficial to themselves.
“They know that, and despite that they take certain steps because they know it’s for a good thing.”
When I go to Czech Radio at the front of the building I often notice these plaques with the names of people who risked their lives and were killed at the time of the invasion and also at the end of World War II. Sometimes I think, What would I have done in that situation? And I have no confidence to say that I would have done the brave thing. Have you thought about that?
“Neither do I have the confidence [laughs]. But certainly once you write the story, and you write it from the point of view of the protagonist, because that’s necessary, you feel like you have the experience already.
“It’s beautiful to show in the example of this invasion that people sometimes take steps that are not beneficial to themselves.”
“You have to take the decisions for him, because if you didn’t do it, it wouldn’t feel authentic.
“And I believe that in those circumstances I would lie if I said that I wouldn’t act like him. Now I think I would – because otherwise I would probably never come up with the story.
“But it is very difficult for people who have children [to take brave action]. I believe that it completely changes the game.”
I honestly believe you’ve done a service to your nation with this film. Given that so many people know the story, and given the importance in Czech history, did you feel a lot of responsibility to get it just right?
“Yes. Yes. No matter what I said about the history not being the most important thing to me, once you pick it up you’ve got to be careful.
“You’ve got to be careful, and you’ve got to be respectful to the people that you speak with, or the people that you learn about.
“At the same time, there are facts and there are recollections that contradict each other. And at the end of the day, it’s you who has to take the courageous step and choose the way through the huge bubble of information.
“This is what I did. But let’s say it’s a balance between being respectful and being courageous.”
One thing that also makes me think that it’s a kind of national film is that there was a special screening for members of the Czech cabinet and the president [in the garden of the PM’s official residence in Prague, on the August 21 anniversary of the invasion] – so no pressure!
“Really, the biggest pressure was to provide them with the right picture and sound, because where we screened it was an open-air place and I hated it!
“No matter what atmosphere it has when you screen a film outside at night, it always brings this great disadvantage of worse sound and picture.
“So that was the only issue for me.”
But if you’re sitting beside the president and he’s watching your movie you don’t feel any nerves?
“Ok, I do [laughs]. I do, but it’s much heavier when you first screen it to a general audience.”
You started working on this project about a decade and a half ago and I know that part of your research involved speaking to some of the actual who were at the Radio in those days and who are characters in your film. What were some of the things that you learned from speaking to those veteran broadcasters?
“I learned a lot of things. One thing that I would probably find the most idiosyncratic is that no matter what happened afterwards, they didn’t see themselves as losers.
“You can call it a loss, but in their way they didn’t lose themselves.
“I loved this view which Věra [Šťovíčková, a Radio legend portrayed in Waves by actress Táňa Pauhofová] described to me.
“She said, Look at the planet, we’re so small and you feel like your life is very useless. And it is. But just imagine when once in your life you did something that is right, and you’re sure of that, that makes it much easier to look at the planet again [laughs].
“That’s something that I really kept in my heart when telling the story: it was the narration of winners.”
I know some of those people have died since you spoke to them. Did of any of them live to see the film?
“Not out of those that are in the movie. There is Mr. [Ondřej] Neff, who was very young at that time, and there are some more, but out of the main protagonists who are in the movie none of them lived until the moment when we screened it.”
Who was Rostislav Běhal, who was the part inspiration for one of your characters? And what was it that he did that so grabbed you?
“He was a programme director who was, you could call it, an ordinary Radio worker.
“But one time, in the middle of the night, he is woken up and called to the office of [Karel] Hoffmann, who was the manager of all connections and media and radio and television, everything – it was like a ministry of media [he headed the Central Communications Administration].
“So Hoffmann called him in the middle of the night and he came to his office. It was shortly before midnight and he gave him a false message and he said, Broadcast this.
“It was a message saying that the troops were coming to help us and that the statesmen of Czechoslovakia actually wanted this to happen.
“And he said, This is a lie – I’m not going to broadcast it.
“For me this was probably the most crucial moment of what I read and the main trigger for me to write the story. Because I saw the great responsibility that this ordinary man had in his hands.
“This ordinary Radio worker said, This is a lie – I’m not going to broadcast it.”
“And if he had broadcast that we would have probably learned something else about those events today, and the whole world would probably perceive it differently, because there were not so many media that would really dilute the message, or contradict it.
“So he did a very brave thing – and very important for the whole nation.”
Obviously it was a long journey to get this film made. What were some of the toughest moments along that journey?
“Probably the toughest was when we got refused by the [Czech] Film Fund and the project was finished enough – and we felt it.
“Then it was a huge struggle, because that put us six months back in the process. It was a very hard time.
“Then the war in Ukraine came and we got the money from the Fund; we went to the Fund session on the very same day when the war started – it was a very emotional moment.
“They said, OK, we want this movie. But then the inflation came and all of a sudden 20 percent of the budget we didn’t have, because everything went 20 percent higher. So you have the budget and then you don’t have it – in a week.
“So there were these two obstacles that came shortly after each other. This was probably the most difficult time for me and for my producer Monika [Kristl].”
Speaking of Ukraine, I guess you’re asked this quite often but do you see parallels between the invasion here and what happened there?
“I do see the parallels, but it’s not the same. Because with Ukraine, they knew it would happen. They had been preparing for this to happen for some time before they actually invaded them.
“Who was probably the most surprised was Russia – by how brave the Ukrainians were.
“But in the case of Czechoslovakia it was different. It was unexpected. There were some hints, but it was not generally perceived as something that would happen.
“Everything was up to the citizens to… maybe not to win, but to find a way through it with dignity, with some defiance that was possible without crazy bloodshed.”
“The army wasn’t ready, no-one was ready. So really everything was up to the citizens to… maybe not to win, but to find a way to go through it with dignity, with some defiance that was possible without, like, crazy bloodshed.”
How cool was it for you dressing up the front of the Czech Radio building to look like in 1968? I guess it was for one weekend, right?
“It was amazing. You know, whenever you see something on set that is happening for your film, you’re amazed. But at the same time you feel the pressure, because you’re, like, OK, they’re going to close Vinohradská Street, in front of the building, because of my film for two days?
“And then you feel the pressure [laughs]. I always say, Every minute I feel the ticking clock when I’m the set, and I feel like every second costs something, and I feel every coin, every crown on my neck – I feel how heavy it is, how cold it is.
“And that’s how I feel when I see a beautifully dressed [Radio] building! I wish I could enjoy it more [laughs], but that’s what I have in my head.”
You make great use of archival footage from the actual invasion in the film. What was your approach to integrating the archival material?
“I knew it was a great treasure that we had. Because once we tried it… we made a test where we tried to implement it in a short scene that we had shot.
“And once we had the feeling that it could work we couldn’t get enough of that. We simply tried to implement it as much as we could.
“Because all of a sudden I didn’t need to make the choice as to whether Waves would be more Good Night, and Good Luck, a subtle story, or Argo. I knew it could be Argo.
“The only question was how good we can do it, and not to get overwhelmed by that, because first you have the screenplay and then you need to… to decorate the screenplay with the archive and use it the way you can.
“But it’s more like an effect than changing the storyline.”
Was some of the archival material previously unseen, or largely unseen?
“Yes. We were lucky to bump into an archive that was never used.
“That was good, because people feel like they already know the footage, because it keeps repeating itself in documentaries – whenever there’s an anniversary, it comes back [laughs].
“And we had some fresh stuff.”
For me the first hour of the film is really good and then the second hour is amazing. What was your approach in terms of building up the story? What impact were you aiming to have on the viewer?
“I like this new approach in dramaturgy which is called ‘roller coaster’. I believe that the reason people like to use it today is that the attention span of the audience is very small – people need another impulse in the middle of the story.
“I used this for the first time in my first film, To See the Sea, and then [second film] On the Roof has a classical structure.
“And then with Waves I knew I would come back with this because I like it when you’re climbing, climbing somewhere – and then once the audience thinks it’s at the top you say, OK, it is the top, but now we’re going down!
“And I love it – I simply love it [laughs].”
I know you studied screenwriting in New York, but not for so long, and that you read a lot of books about screenwriting. As far as I know you haven’t studied directing – how did you get so good?
“[Laughs] I think my great advantage is that I was practically raised on a film set. Because I’ve been on film sets since the age of 15 and all of a sudden you’re 30 and you feel like you’ve been on 40 film sets.
“So you know the rhythm. You know what people are supposed to do.
“I know that as an actor you focus mainly on yourself, but at the same time you understand the stuff.
“I think that’s my biggest advantage, because you can’t really call it an authentic debut once such a person ends up directing.”
What directors would you say have influenced you? Either ones that you’ve worked directly with or ones you simply admire?
“It is definitely Jan Svěrák and Jan Hřebejk. Those are my favourites from when I was growing up.
“At the same time I need to mention that I never thought of becoming a director. Never.
“But those are the directors that I liked. And I can name films: I like Home Alone, I love Superman. And no matter how far it seems from what I do, it’s very close.”
Sometimes we see European directors who reach a certain level and then they go to the US, to LA, with varying degrees of success. Is that a path you would consider following?
“Yes, and no. I’ve been in this business for quite some time and I believe that the one thing that never lets you down is your motivation.
“My only motivation is to find the best material I can find, to direct it and to bring it the screen.
“Going to the US, or having a good agent there, opens up your options for getting good screenplays. But it’s not the main motivation.”
“And going to America, or having a good agent in America, certainly opens up your options for getting good screenplays.
“But it’s not the main motivation. I can also get a better screenplay here, or write a screenplay for myself.
“So let’s say if it opens up the possibilities of me and Monika, because we certainly want to work together, then I would go for it.”
I know you were recently in LA, campaigning for the Oscar for Best International Film. And congratulations – you’ve just been named on the shortlist of 15 films. What was the experience like of trying to get attention for the movie, presuming that your budget for this campaign is probably considerably less than that of some of the films that you’re competing with?
“It’s probably the smallest budget [laughs] out of the 15 movies, I would guess. And I guess I’m right [laughs].
“The first time we went to LA it was torture, because the understanding of what the difference was between us and the others… And we were not on the map, because nobody knew about us.
“We joined the race very late. It’s also given by the fact that the Czech Film and Television Academy chooses the candidate [to submit as Czech nominee] in the middle of September and that’s very late.
“There are movies that are in the race for months; they started at the Berlinale or wherever, so the whole community already knows them very well.”
So how did you do it?
“We worked hard. We simply invested our energy in things where we couldn’t invest money. And we used the money that we had smartly.
“But, you know, there’s one thing that you need if you want to succeed and that’s the film. It’s the film.
“Of course when you’re in the part where you’re trying to get onto the shortlist, it’s the part that is not fair, because you need to get their attention, and to get them to see the film.
“Whereas other films pay for their dinners and they pay for everything, and they can really find a way that is very pleasant for them, which we only had limited tools to do.
“But once we saw that people liked the film, it kept spreading. The only thing you need to do is not to stand in its way and support it as much as you can.
“And then every success needs a healthy amount of luck [laughs].”
Generally, what has been the response when people who are not Czech see it?
“That’s been the most interesting thing for me. You can’t really say if the reactions are the same. The only thing you can judge is the questions that people have at the Q&A after the film – and the questions are the same. They are one to one.
“It’s amazing, and not only if you go to LA, or you go to France, or to Denmark and elsewhere, but also if you go to a young audience.
“We had screenings for schools here and there were like 20 12-year-old kids and they had the very same questions that people have after the screenings in LA.”
“We had screenings for schools here and there were like 20 12-year-old kids and they had the very same questions that people have in America after the screenings in LA. And the very same questions they had in Karlovy Vary or elsewhere in the Czech Republic.”
Every time I put anything on Twitter, or X, about Waves, it gets a huge response from people. A lot of people, for example in England or America, say, When will we get a chance to see this movie? So what is the plan for international distribution?
“The film was already sold to France, to Spain, to Hungary and I think now Brazil is on the way.
“But let’s say the most important thing is the shortlist that we got on now – that really opens up your options.
“I can’t tell when and how it will go internationally, but now is the time when it’s happening. So I’m hoping it will be soon.
“But out of the films on the shortlist [as of December 18] there are only two that have no US distributor – yet.
“One of them is Waves, so we’re hoping to get one, and a good one [laughs].”
What’s next for you as a director? I would imagine that after this enormous film it could be nice to do something about, I don’t know, three people stuck in an elevator.
“That would be lovely! But I need to find a way between people’s expectations and my cravings.
“I fell in love with the dynamic and certain volume that Waves has, so I would like to go for that.
“It’s not that I need to dig in history again, but I can.”
“It certainly doesn’t need to be as big as Waves. But it can be. I don’t know. I’m trying to keep myself free, and I’m in search of material.”
So as of now there’s nothing you’ve got lined up as your next project?
“There are two topics that I’m considering…”
Czech Television?
“[Laughs] No. When I made To See the Sea I kept getting screenplays about children. I was like, Yeah, I can do another one, but it’s not that I want to make children’s films; I want to make films.
“So it’s not that I need to dig in history again, but I can.”
