Prague Fringe at 25: Steve Gove and Angus Coull on early days of leading fringe festival
Since its seat-of-the-pants beginnings in the early 2000s, the Prague Fringe has established itself as one of the leading events of its kind in Europe. Indeed, this year the festival is marking no less than a quarter century of existence with a packed programme that gets underway on May 22. The Prague Fringe was first dreamt up by two friends: Steve Gove, who still runs it, and Angus Coull, who is now back in the pair’s native Scotland. And ahead of this year’s landmark edition, Gove and Coull shared often colourful recollections of the festival’s beginnings.
My first question is a simple one – how did you guys first meet?
SG: “[Laughs] Well, there’s a story!”
AC: “It’s not so simple.”
SG: “We actually met through a friend, who was working on a radio programme with Angus, back in the very early ‘90s.
“I’d been a student and I’d done a production at college – and I’d invited the local radio to come along.
“I was very delighted that Fiona McKinnon and Angus Coull were going to do an interview with me on the local radio station.
“So that’s how we met. All three of us became pals – and much further down the line the fringe idea came into being.”
That’s my second question. What was the initial spark for the Prague Fringe?
AC: “He had a crazy idea. He was working on the Edinburgh Fringe and I was working there, doing TV programmes and stuff, so we were both heavily involved in that.
“He then decided to move to Prague and said he was fed up teaching English and that he would put on a fringe.
“I said, Ha ha, good luck with that.
“Then my contract came to an end and I thought, He could do it – and I’ll go and help him.
“So that was it. I came over in the first year and we did it, we got it going.”
So you had the idea – what were the first steps to actually getting it off the ground?
SG: “Well, I was really relieved when Angus agreed to come and live in Prague.
“And for the first year and a bit we were all guns blazing, just trying to make contacts, get sponsorship, and reaching out to any Scots that we knew that lived in Prague.
“Fortunately the British ambassador in Prague at the time was a Scot, Anne Pringle, and she agreed to be our patron.
“That was fantastic, because it gave us a real stamp of approval from someone.
“The local director of Volvo was a Scot and he sponsored us as well. And the GM of the Corinthia Towers as well was half-Scottish and half-Norwegian, I think, and he agreed as well.
“So there were a lot of sort of Scottish connections going on.”
The Scottish mafia.
“Exactly. That was Angus’s role. He was reaching out and meeting as many people as we could.
“I was just delighted that he was able to come and stay in Prague. I couldn’t have done it, really, on my own.”
How did you go about just setting up the infrastructure in the beginning? Did you first go to venues, or did you first contact artists who could maybe come?
AC: “Steven, having lived here, had been to lots of venues and had contacts with venues.
“And also, working at Edinburgh, he had contacts with artists.
“So we kind of came already prepared, I guess. Certainly we knew what the programme would be, and the artists.
“And I sort of hit the ground running, trying to persuade people to fund it.
“But Steven did the City Council, and they were a godsend for us. There was lots of bureaucracy.”
SG: “I had a colleague who was working with me teaching English, as well. Jana Pfeiferová. She was brilliant. She did a lot of the voluntary work for us, and helped us make important connections.
“We reached out to the City Council and the representative there said, Oh my God, this sounds really amazing.
“They sort of pushed from within for us to get meetings with various other people.
“And we were awarded a grant in the first year; that’s quite untypical perhaps today, but it was very unusual in those days.”
I’m very impressed that Prague wanted to get involved, especially when the whole idea would, to me, seem very alien to Czechs and to the Prague authorities.
AC: “I remember saying the word ‘fringe’ and Czech people not knowing what it was, or them saying ‘fring-e’ and so on.
“I remember saying the word ‘fringe’ and Czech people not knowing what it was.”
“There was a hoo-ha about what the name of it was.”
SG: “I once got a spam letter back in the day and it was addressed to the director of the ‘fridge’ festival.
“So there was a lot of mystery around that.
“Actually, that was one of the biggest challenges. Now there are over 300 fringes around the world, but in those days there were 30; we were almost exactly the 30th fringe in the world.
“There were fringes in the States, in Canada, in Australia, but there were none in continental Europe, other than the Avignon OFF, which had been running for quite a few years before us.
“But to bring this concept to the city… it was very alien indeed.
“The biggest success was internationally. Everyone was saying the Prague Fringe sounded amazing – they could imagine a fringe taking place in Prague.
“But locally it was really, really tough, because nobody much knew what it was.
“It was round about that time, probably after the first year of the Fringe, that the Czech newspapers started to report on the Edinburgh Festival Fringe, which had never happened before.
“So that was quite exciting – that the global fringe concept was brought here, based on what we were doing as well.”
I presume you didn’t have much money to offer the acts that you hoped would play in Prague. How did you attract them?
“We were young and naive and less, I suppose, scared about getting into debt than we would have been in later years.”
AC: “We were young and naive and less, I suppose, scared about getting into debt than we would have been in later years.
“We did end up paying people a lot of money. Steven wouldn’t have to pay anybody now, because that’s not how it works.
“But we were quite sensible. We did wait before we signed contracts and things, to make sure we would get funding.
“Which you would think, in time, we would learn lessons from, but for me it’s been the reverse.
“I run a festival now where I’ve not done that; I’ve booked acts without having the funding.
“So the early days were the sensible days, actually.”
“We just had to jump in and do something, that was the point. Without doing something, there would certainly be nothing.”
SG: “In a way. We just had to jump in and do something, that was the point. Without doing something, there would certainly be nothing. We wouldn’t have started the festival.
“So it was a case of, we had to start it somehow.
“I did reach out to a lot of acts I saw in Edinburgh that year and the year before.
“I had never set up an arts event, I had never been involved in setting up an arts event, so I was sort of coyly asking people how much they would charge if we wanted them to come to Prague.
“And of course the figures came through and it was like, Oh gosh.
“But as the months went on it was like, Would you come if we were able to give you half of the fee? Would you be able to come if you were paid nothing?
“All the artists actually pay a fee to enter the festival, which is very typical in Edinburgh or wherever.”
“In the end everybody was so invested in making it happen that all the artists came on no fee at all; they were just given a per diem.
“And astonishingly – I still, to this day, can’t believe this happened, we got 30 free flights on the Go Fly airline, which was British Airways’ budget sister company.
“So we put everyone on Go Fly from London and flew them in from Britain – and everyone just did it, because they wanted to do it.
“That was just amazing and I’m thankful to this day that that happened. Because of course we wouldn’t have managed if we’d had to pay everyone the full fee.”
I saw an old newspaper article about you two and you, Angus, said, We are professional beggars. What were you begging for most?
AC: “[Laughs] I wasn’t lying.
“Just as Steven’s just said, that was how we had to do it. We had to basically go out with a begging bowl to potential sponsors.
“We tried to get everybody to do everything for nothing.
“We didn’t have money to even get graphic design and stuff done, so just had to persuade people – talk nicely to them, twist their arms – and just see what we could get.
“So yes, we were literally going around with a begging bowl.”
SG: “One of my favourite moments was having a complete meltdown at the kitchen table in our flat in Vinohrady, when Angus dared to suggest that we remove our own fees from the budget [laughs].
“It was quite a naive moment really, because it was like, Of course we’ll be getting paid for working so hard!
“And that didn’t happen for quite a few years.
“But we subsidised it in terms of our time. A virtual language school that I ran at the time paid a lot into the pot as well.
“So we somehow managed to knit it all together.”
AC: “It was kind of a labour of love really, wasn’t it?
“It wasn’t really about making money. It was just about having this idea and seeing if we could pull it off – and bringing something different to the city.”
I also saw an old Scottish TV report recorded in the festival’s early days when you said that you were in debt at the time. How long was that the case?
“Well, 25 years [laughs]. No. The thing is, it’s still not a money-making enterprise.
“And although I am, gladly, able to pay myself, Angus is not as involved, certainly as he was in the early days.
“The riches of the heart that are gained from doing something like this cannot be bought for any sum of money.”
“But people often ask me why I do it if I’m not able to pay myself properly, and my answer is always that the riches of the heart that are gained from doing something like this cannot be bought for any sum of money.
“The joy that this has brought me over the 25 years, the connections… None of my trips are really holidays – they’re always visits to festivals and connecting with new people.
“And if I were offered the chance to swap lives with somebody with a very well-paid job, I don’t think I’d take it, because it’s not about money – it’s about doing something that gives a lot of people a lot of joy.
“Also, I always used to like telling people to come and visit me in Prague. Family and friends came. Angus came in the early days before we thought of the festival.
“And Fringe is kind of an extension of that, because there are hundreds of people who come every year because they want to come to the festival.
“And to me it’s almost like I’m still showing the city off to people.
“And many have never been. At the Off-Season Comedy festival in November we had an Indian artist who had never been to Europe before.
“He was just shocked at minus 7 and full of joy at the snowfall.
“That brings so much pleasure to me, and that is worth so much more than any amount of money.”
When did the festival start to become more professional? When did you feel you had to do it more professionally, or did that just happen naturally?
AC: “After I left [both laugh].”
SG: “It took a few years. And it took a few years before my other organisation, the little language school, weaned itself off of the festival and we were able to get bigger amounts of funding, more sponsorship and so forth.
“Since then as well we set up a more ‘fringe suitable’ model in terms of how the artists get to the city and perform.
“All the artists actually pay a fee to enter the festival, which is very typical in Edinburgh or wherever.
“In Edinburgh now it’s extremely expensive; you pay for everything, including theatre rent.”
Going to Edinburgh is like an investment?
SG: “It is. And there are multiple reasons why artists choose to do fringes.
“So that’s kind of how we operate now, and that obviously generates a bit more income as well, which means that we can function more professionally, let’s say.”
How does that work for them, if they’re basically paying to play?
SG: “I ask artists all the time, and I get a different answer for every time I ask this question.
“It could be that simply that they’d never played in Europe before and they wanted to come and make connections.
“That’s another thing: Fringes for artists are massive networking opportunities.
“They’re able to meet other artists and arts industry professionals who can connect them around the world with other people as well.”
Do you get a sense from them that they are satisfied with what they get out of coming to the Prague Fringe?
SG: “Yes. Certainly more in the last 15 years or so, when our audiences have been better.
“Because if you’re going to invest in coming and performing at the Fringe in Prague – for a whole multitude of reasons that is not financial – and then you don’t get an audience, that’s kind of disheartening and depressing.
“But we do get really great audiences now at the Prague Fringe and last year we had multiple, multiple sell-outs.
“So the artists are really happy. Then the reviewers have come and they’ve given them a good review.
“We’ve also got a great photographer who’s been working with us for five years and he can provide photographs for the artists too.
“So there are a lot of reasons why there are benefits for the artists, and by and large they are super happy with the connections that they’ve made.
“Plus they might be picked up to go to another festival. There were three Indian artists who were invited to perform Off Broadway in New York, two years ago.
“There was a group who came from Taiwan and they were picked up to go to Sicily, to the fringe festival there, and also to New York.
“So there are opportunities. That does happen in Edinburgh, but you can get a little bit lost in the scale of Edinburgh, which is why Prague is a bit more desirable.”
AC: “That’s given me a flashback to year one, when we had a one-woman Jane Eyre production, from the States, and no tickets had been sold in advance.
“And half an hour before she went on, one ticket had been sold, in a beautiful 300-seater theatre.
“We had to say to her, Only one ticket has been sold – do you still want to go on?
“And, amazingly, she still went on.
“So things have definitely changed, for the better.”
Is there anything you would do differently if you were to start the Prague Fringe again?
AC: “I think we probably wouldn’t do it.
“I think it was just a moment of madness that we did it.
“Now we’ve got more sensible heads on and we’d probably never do it again.
“No, I’m glad it happened the way it did, because it was a learning curve; every year we learned.
“We did make mistakes – some of them were big blunders – but we got ourselves out of them, and now it’s a really established event.”
SG: “People ask me for my tips on starting a new fringe or whatever, and I always say you’ve got to have a certain amount of naivety.
“If somebody had sat me down and told me, This is how the next five years of your life are going to be, I would have gone, [laughs] No, it’s not!
“I would have denied it and just battled ahead anyway.
“Oddly enough, though, as part of the celebrations of 25 years of Prague Fringe, I started another fringe [laughs], in Mumbai, which is absolutely bonkers, with a young Indian friend.
“He has all the energy that I had when I started the Prague Fringe, and into the mix is an older person, myself, who has experience. And it works really, really well.”
AC: “He’s at one end of the spectrum: He’s started a festival in Mumbai, with 25 million people, and gets huge audiences, whereas I now live in a town of 5,000 people and I started a little festival there.”
SG: “In a beautiful church.”
AC: “Indeed. It’s a choral music festival.
“And maybe what I would say is if you are going to start something, be wary of doing it with your best pals.
“Because you are so close to each other that you can often get into interesting situations – and have quite spectacular fights on trams and things, when you disagree [laughs].”
SG: “That’s a direct reference to a particular argument on a tram that ended up with me escaping from the tram, while it was still moving. This was quite a number of years ago.”
AC: “Don’t try that anybody.”
SG: “No.”
Angus, when did you leave Prague? And how have you stayed connected with the Prague Fringe?
AC: “I do feel it was partly my baby as well – I feel that we jointly gave birth to this event.
“I had planned to stay in Prague but circumstances meant that I ended up moving to New Zealand.
“So for a while I was too far away to remain involved. But every time I came back, I did come to Fringe.
“I still feel it’s kind of in my blood, that I’m part of it and it’s part of me.
“I come as often as I can, and I’ve loved seeing it develop over the years.”
So what are your impressions when you come back today and see what Steve’s doing with the festival?
AC: “I’m in awe of it. It just runs so smoothly.
“I was sitting in his office with him yesterday and he just announced that they had sold 96 tickets that day – you know, that was probably more than we sold in the first year for every single event.
“He’s just got it running so smoothly. The website is fantastic, the network of people behind it, the volunteers, are all fantastic.
“So many amazing young Czech people are now supporting this event, and it’s just great to see that.”
Steve, this year is the 25th edition – what are your plans for it?
SG: “The next 25 [laughs]? Well, this year is a bumper year; I say that every year.
“Given that the fringe movement started in Edinburgh, I had the idea of pulling together a Scottish season, to honour that and to nod to that.
“So we’ve got a Scottish season of nine different acts, which is going to be very exciting. There’s stand-up comedy with Fred MacAulay, who’s very famous in Scotland.
“We’ve got a brilliant clowning show by a trio called Late Bloomers, which is a hilarious show about all the stereotypes of Scotland and Scottish people. And I’ll let you into a wee secret: Not one of the performers is Scottish.
“We’ve also got a Taiwan week, with three performances from Taiwan. We’ve got a large stand-up comedy set, where we’re working with the comedy venues Metro Comedy Club and Tequila Tales.
“We’ve got the festival of India, which is a whole other set of acts, including storytelling, spoken word, stand-up comedy and theatre.
“So it’s a real mix of different things. But you can get into it in little bites.
“If you go to the website and you feel a bit bamboozled with the offer, you can just go down to where it says Themes and click onto that. You can choose a theme for yourself and then just jump in and see where that takes you.”
